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John Joe Gray
OpenForum ars technica users plot to kill the Grays
On August 30, 2000, a number of users of OpenForum ars technica discuss how
to kill the Grays. This dialog makes you wonder who is really wacky. They
probably watch too many movies. There does not seem to be much respect for life
or the quality of life. This is a complete transcript except the language has
been tamed for all audiences. These people need much prayer.
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| Ars
OpenForum 2.0a > The Soap Box > Those wacky
Texans... |
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vapor
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523
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Those
wacky Texans...
Sounds like Waco all over
again just in time for the election...Waco II
posted August 30, 2000 11:52
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Digitali
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Dallas
Reg: December 27, 1999
Posts: 307
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Nah,
they've learned their lesson for at least another 18 months.
Enjoy our borrowed time. . .
dB
posted August 30, 2000 12:02
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PandemicBleep
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Global
Bleep |
What
really bleeps is that these bleep's reproduce and have children.
Not to say i'm not thankful they exist it's nice to see that
there's at least a base for resisting the USG should they make
any idiotic moves in law. These people are idealistic fanatics
but hey every state needs a group.
I say just leave them alone and install some laser barriers
and a couple cameras around the complex leave them alone then
when anyone enters or exits the complex send out they'll send a
signal and a helicopter to check it out. If sombody is leaving.
pull em over.
I really don't think the people of texas or the US want to
pay out any money for some sick blood bath or 90 day bar b que
while the officers sit around and eat beef jerky all day just
looking periodically with their binoculars for some signals.
What a waste.
Waco was a big mound of bleep. We need to inject some common
sense into our legal system to counter the imperfection of law.
And we also need to be able to tolerate at least a little
stupidity because it's simply not worth dead bodies. As far as
i'm concerned you can't take the freedom of sombody willing to
die to do what they want to do. You can kill them but unless
they're out killling others it's simply not worth it.
posted August 30, 2000 12:11
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vapor
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523
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This could
be a great stealth topic to question Geoge W. about.
"Governer Bush, how come you're not doing more to
reunite those children with their legal guardian?"
"That man assulted a Texas State Trooper, are you going
to let him get away with that?"
Caught between the rock of law and order and the hard place
of extreme right gun nuts. It would be hilarious to see him try
to weasle out of that.
posted August 30, 2000 12:18
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PinheadX
Ars Centurion
Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777
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don't
blame it on Texas...
I think the government should stay out of this... but I also
think these people are inbred nutcases with little to no
understanding of anything beyond their own property.
Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should
just have a group of private citizens form an
"anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and snipers,
and take bleeps like this out.
posted August 30, 2000 12:19
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Glocksman
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523
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quote:
Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should
just have a group of private citizens form an
"anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and
snipers, and take bleeps like this out.
Uhh Huuh.
Sure, and have all of those kids get killed by a bunch of
yahoos with no training?
posted August 30, 2000 12:33
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toshiro
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Takoma Park, MD, USA
Reg: December 20, 1999
Posts: 503
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quote:
Sure, and have all of those kids get killed by a bunch of
yahoos with no training?
My point exactly. The main reason the government has moved to
take them out is that there are kids in the compound. No one
wants another Waco.
-toshiro
posted August 30, 2000 12:35
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Spamizbad
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801
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Anti-militia?
If the militia started hurting/killing/raping innocent people
outside of their little circle, then I'd say "Bleep yeh".
But as long as they have no major plans to harm anyone, I say
let them be. They're just doing this to attention to begin with.
posted August 30, 2000 12:37
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Jessica
Ars Senator
Tribus: Columbia, MO, USA
Reg: June 02, 1999
Posts: 923
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So,
PinheadX, the government should just stay out of this, eh?
Despite both a charge of assault on an officer of the law and a
custody judgement that these people refuse to recognize, the
goverment should just stay out of it? Let them keep the kid? Let
them get away with assault? Great plan you have there; after
all, we wouldn't want to actually enforce the law or anything,
now would we? [/sarcasm]
Serve the bleep warrants. If they don't appear in court, call
in the state troopers and haul them out. If they give armed
resistance (to either serving the warrants or in refusing to
respond to the warrants), arrest the whole bleep lot of them,
even if that means going in with armored cars and tear gas. If
they decide to pull a Waco and commit mass-suicide rather than
submit to arrest, let them. Just be bleep sure to be
ready and able to prove that they touched off the gasoline
instead of your troopers.
posted August 30, 2000 12:38
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PinheadX
Ars Centurion
Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777
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who said
they would have no training?
posted August 30, 2000 12:39
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Spamizbad
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801
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Its to my
understanding most militias have decent training. Or is this
wrong? Just how well trained are most of them?
posted August 30, 2000 12:42
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Glocksman
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523
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quote:
Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should
just have a group of private citizens form an
"anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and
snipers, and take bleeps like this out.
This would also be called "Conspiracy to Commit
Murder", among other legal terms.
posted August 30, 2000 12:50
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PinheadX
Ars Centurion
Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777
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I didn't
say they shouldn't be arrested, if possible... I just don't
think we need the ATF or the military going in to arrest some
dude for assault on an officer (if it were murder or attempted
murder, then fine, bleep the consequences) and if they can get
the _main_ guy (who is wanted for assault, IIRC), it will be
alot easier to get the children back to their father. I think it
should be on the local law enforcement to handle this situation
if possible, and not up to the bleeping federal government.
Enforcing the law should be up to local law enforcement
(Texas State Troopers or County Sherrif's Dept. or whomever),
unless it is just way beyond their scope.
Let's say they "serve the bleep warrants". I'd like
to see that happen, especially without anyone getting shot in
the process... but I doubt it will happen so smoothly. You want
another Waco? Sorry, but I'm not willing to go through that
again, and have that be the cause of more retaliatory terrorist
attacks (like OKC).
posted August 30, 2000 12:52
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Glocksman
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523
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quote:
Serve the bleep warrants. If they don't appear in court, call
in the state troopers and haul them out. If they give armed
resistance (to either serving the warrants or in refusing to
respond to the warrants), arrest the whole bleep lot of them,
even if that means going in with armored cars and tear gas. If
they decide to pull a Waco and commit mass-suicide rather than
submit to arrest, let them. Just be bleep sure to be ready and
able to prove that they touched off the gasoline instead of
your troopers.
Grreat plan.
If the kids get in the way, too bad. I happen to think the
low key approach is the best way to deal with these kind of
people. You start throwing APC's and SWAT in there, you just
feed their paranoid fantasies.
Tell me how to arrest them without putting the children in
danger, and I might agree with you, but playing commando with
kids in the line of fire is irresponsible. Just ask Vickie
Weaver's kids about that.
posted August 30, 2000 12:55
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Spamizbad
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801
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Hey, I
poked around for some info on this guy; check this
out.
Its got an interview with him, amoung other things.
posted August 30, 2000 12:56
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PinheadX
Ars Centurion
Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777
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quote:
This would also be called "Conspiracy to Commit
Murder", among other legal terms.
fine, take me seriously...
posted August 30, 2000 12:59
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Glocksman
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523
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Well, you
didn't post a smiley or use the <sarcasm> tags. People
believe weirder things, so yes, I took you seriously.
posted August 30, 2000 13:02
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vapor
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523
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Spam;
That sight is scary with a capital s.
posted August 30, 2000 13:13
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Jessica
Ars Senator
Tribus: Columbia, MO, USA
Reg: June 02, 1999
Posts: 923
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So we just
leave them there, Glocksman? Because that is what the
"low-key" approach amounts to. They've been trying the
"low-key" approach since spring, with no results
whatsoever. Near as I can tell from what I've dug up on the
case, the "low-key" approach amounts to nothing more
than issuing warrants with no intent to serve them, and cutting
off utilities that haven't been paid for months (and that the
compound can do without anyway).
Given the way that these people have positioned themselves,
it is pretty bleep obvious that they want another Waco;
they want martyrdom. If the sherrif or state troopers do
anything other than what they are doing now, these clowns will
grab it as an excuse to start their little holy war (probably
with the same apocalyptic end as at Waco). If the law
enforcement folks do nothing, then a clear and concise message
has been sent to every bunker full of nuts in the country that
they can do whatever they want so long as they keep a bunch of
kids in the bunker as hostages.
By all means, every effort should be make to avoid doing
anything to that "KIDS INSIDE" bunker. If these
fanatics do decide to go in and kill the kids in a "we
won't let anyone win" move, put the survivors up on murder
charges, but don't blame the police for doing their job.
posted August 30, 2000 13:13
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PinheadX
Ars Centurion
Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777
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come on,
NINJAS should have tipped you off...
It was a reactionary statement. I'm sick of these "your
government doesn't apply to me, only my (interpretation of my)
religion does" wacko types. Basically, these people are too
stupid or lazy to change the situation through legislation, and
they can't own up to their responsibilities, so they figure
"I'll hole up with a rifle and a bible, and if anyone tries
to come on my property, I'll send him to hell". If they're
allowed to break the law and get away with it by intimidating
law enforcement, why not have a group of people breaking the law
and taking them out? I know how dangerous this would be...
sanctioning this type of thing leads to "well, who is next
to be taken out?" and "who says killing abortion
doctors is wrong?" kinds of thinking. I'm not proposing we
allow it, just a sort of vague "I wish someone would take
them out" kind of statement, while avoiding the whole
"blame the government" issue.
[/ramble]
posted August 30, 2000 13:16
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Glocksman
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523
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quote:
So we just leave them there, Glocksman? Because that is what
the "low-key" approach amounts to. They've been
trying the "low-key" approach since spring, with no
results whatsoever.
It worked in dealing with the Freemen in Montana, didn't it?
What the LEA's in Texas need to do is consult with some experts
in that kind of movement and the thinking of its' adherents. Get
their advice and proceed from there. Maybe the best plan is to
do a smash-n-grab, but from the limited info I have, waiting
seems much more preferable to putting kids at risk in order to
effect an arrest on a simple assault charge. If we were talking
about someone who is an immediate threat to the life of others
or was a murderer, my opinion may change, but the lesson from
Waco and Ruby Ridge is that to simply wait and see is preferable
to a "let's get on the 6 O'Clock news" SWAT raid that
can get people killed.
posted August 30, 2000 13:24
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vapor
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523
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quote:
"let's get on the 6 O'Clock news" SWAT raid that can
get people killed.
Well, Sweeps season is coming up...
posted August 30, 2000 15:30
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poptones
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: lost somewhere in the desert...
Reg: January 04, 2000
Posts: 3876
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I clicked
on the chatroom link, but no one was home. Looks like the
"Kingdom of Heaven" is a lonely place.
Feh. More nuts in overalls and straw hats.
Hippies...
posted August 30, 2000 19:53
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htom
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: eagan,MN,USA
Reg: April 27, 2000
Posts: 161
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The local
authorities seem to be displaying a large quantity of common
sense, for which they should be commended. 
Once this starts getting lots of publicity, that will doubtless
evaporate and some hotshot will take over and we'll get to have
more funeral processions. 
posted August 31, 2000 17:37
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PreciousBodilyFluids
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: The Peoples Republic of Austin Texas
Reg: April 24, 2000
Posts: 919
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The
"wacky Texan" in question is going to be on the Alex
Jones show tonight. 10pm - 1am Eastern.
He's on right now.
[This message was edited by PreciousBodilyFluids on August
31, 2000 at 22:10.]
posted August 31, 2000 22:05
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vapor
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523
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Your what
hurts?
posted August 31, 2000 23:17
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